My serious post
I am stimulated by Isaiah's comment to Jason's post. (In our feeble attempts to be "relevant", the gospel suddenly becomes irrelevant.) Isaiah, I would love for you to expound. Do you mean that we shouldn't try to make the Gospel relevant? Probably not. I would assume you mean that the generalized often hyperbolized modern evangelical church can have a tendency to cheapen the message of the Gospel by trying to package it in an "attractive" way to the masses. But I am curious as to what you really mean.
I am interested in your thoughts. This is a question I face often, especially as we grow our new faith community in Austin. I often have to ask myself, "Am I doing this because God is telling me to or becuase it seems like the expedient way to attract the most people to a meeting?" My objective is the Great Commandments, which necesitates relationships with people inside a community. And I innately assume relevancy is a key. I have always assumed this was Bible for a number of reasons. I would love for anyone to respond to this.
Thanks for your serious post Jason, and your comment, Isaiah. I am stimulated.
posted by kukailimoku at 12:32 AM
6 Comments:
i am percolating. a thought-out response will follow.
7:58 PM
me too. i have been since jason posted last week.
11:33 PM
You basically hit the nail on the head, Benjamin. I won't expound here in the comment section, but I will offer these honest (if overly blunt) words: My response ultimately stems from our reasons for "leaving", as it were, evangelicalism, and becoming Orthodox.
However, I am not saying that relevance is irrelevant or something to that effect. Just that we ourselves lost sight of the true mission of Christ's Church and his Gospel. Granted, I still struggle with what it means to preach the Gospel to all nations and am as of yet unclear what exactly Orthodoxy has to say to this. That said, Orthodoxy is missional, evangelical, charismatic and, yes, even relevant. But those attributes don't take the outward forms you would think they should.
Once again, I don't really know what exactly the Orthodox answer to this is, but I do know that Elise and I find deep satisfaction and joy in what the Orthodox Church is.
Perhaps this is vague and leaves you grasping for more. But then, shouldn't it?
6:59 PM
To "piggyback" off Isaiah & Benjamin's thoughts (that is a useful word I learned in a Hope College education class)....
I think relevancy is whenever the Holy Spirit works...period. That's what people want. We can't create it. All our forms are nothing unless they, as earthen vessels, are filled with eternal treasure. I feel like we all are trying to figure out these issues in different ways. For example, I have a deep attraction and appreciation for the Catholic church lately.
I think God is sacramental and incarnational and inhabits our forms, whether they be ancient liturgies or youth group videos. Christ is humble and enters into our human, earthy existence.
That gives me a lot of hope. And yes, we shouldn't depend on forms that are stale or distracting us from God's true work...but that doesn't mean God can't work through them (through anything?).
However, when certain "forms" turn us off after a while, or turn other types of people off, should we dispense with them because they are obstacles to the gospel (for us or others)? It seems like that's what Isaiah has done for himself...and it is also the same thing Ben and Jason are trying to do in order to reach others in the best possible way.
I have another, related question: Do things have to be artistically superior in order to reach people, or just to reach a certain type of people, or just to have a level of integrity/excellence before God?
11:04 PM
Denise,
I agree with you. I've been reading Donald Miller's "Blue Like Jazz" lately (and maybe that is affecting my comments) but it makes me think... why do we keep trying so stinkin' hard to make the church so appealing and essentially "cool" to those not in church? I think all God wants from us is humility not only before Him but also before man, and then excellence in what we do for God... or at least try to be excellent for God. I guess that's all I can hope to be, personally (though I'm sure I am probably sorrily far from both most of the time). I feel like our church tries so hard to be "cool" by providing new technology in the worship service, stream lined video, drama, and an exciting Youth program with video games and ski retreats... which are not bad things, but do they really help present the gospel and essentially Christ? I guess it's hard to say not having spoken with anyone lately to see if our really hi-tech video helped them see Christ. But truly, I think if we (as a church) would stop trying to draw people to Christ with hi-tech, new wave, fancy stuff and just give them Christ, humble, unpopular Christ-likeness, then the gospel may suddenly become relevant. Who knows? Just my thoughts.
9:29 AM
Better late than never i guess. Jason's problem seems fixed now, but my thought was that it seems important to evaluate the giftedness of your student and adult leaders (more evangelistic or more discipling). Also I loved when my high school youth leader came in and made it more serious. We lost a couple people but ended up having 75 strong followers of Jesus is good community. As far as "relevancy" goes, I think it's found more in the sharing of lives and truthfulness of struggle than in media presentations. I think belonging, forgiveness, comfort, laughter, challenge, etc. are all relevant to everyone. I can personally find flashy, "whatever generation we are" presentations shallow at times and fear they might muddy the waters of the gospel and quickly grow an immature church that is not discipled later. However that need not be. As I've never been very technological or with the times, it probably isn't fair for me to dismiss those types of outreach. It definitely isn't godly for me to insist that a simpler way is more righteous. Michael keeps me balanced here.
11:33 PM
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